Curse

Revelations · Oct 25, 2009, 02:41 PM // 14:41

I'm not terribly concerned about this now, but I feel that if it hasn't already happened, the 5 consecutive wins to achieve points is probably going to turn away a large amount of your playerbase.

While I don't have too much of an issue with this myself, I know that many potential TA'ers were put off because they'd win a few matches, and get steamrolled by a g9 pug on their fourth or so, and not actually walk away with anything. This said, I feel that modeling the title after Glad was a bad idea, in that many casual players will desert the arena due to the difficulty achieving title points against strong teams.

So ultimately I would suggest that the title be changed (sooner rather than later) to be similar in style to the Hero track, in that you achieve a single point per win, plus one point for each consecutive, minus one. Obviously the Honor points required per tier would need to be raised significantly, and there would need to be a cap on points won per match, but I feel that Codex would retain more of it's players if they felt they were actually getting somewhere with their title.

My New Name · Oct 25, 2009, 02:55 PM // 14:55

/signed i already gave up on codex cuz of cons wins lol

Gift3d · Oct 25, 2009, 03:27 PM // 15:27

isn't that what the point of a title is? to show you're good at something? from those two responses i can tell it's working out wonderfully -- good players get points toward title, and badlets cower in shame.

Shayne Hawke · Oct 25, 2009, 03:29 PM // 15:29

I'm somewhat put off from it myself, but I think it's too soon to be changing it. Let the playerbase get adjusted to the arena first and then see if there's any reason to change it.

Revelations · Oct 25, 2009, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

isn't that what the point of a title is? to show you're good at something? from those two responses i can tell it's working out wonderfully -- good players get points toward title, and badlets cower in shame.

If you make the tiers significantly high, baddies are still going to take months to achieve ranks in it. It'll really be no different to currently, except said bad players are going to feel like they're progressing, and thus be more inclined to play. The point of this isn't to make the title easier to obtain, just to make it feel like it is, so that people continue to play and we don't have another dead format.

See above example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

I'm somewhat put off from it myself, but I think it's too soon to be changing it. Let the playerbase get adjusted to the arena first and then see if there's any reason to change it.

The longer you leave a change like this, the shittier people are going to be when the change does happen. Would be good to get it out of the way before people start achieving higher ranks, if such a thing is found desirable.

Bobby2 · Oct 25, 2009, 03:39 PM // 15:39

My hatred for ANet demands I say /unsigned.

Saph · Oct 25, 2009, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Well it is a PvP arena, so I'd expect the title to be somewhat harder to achieve. Besides, whatever happen to playing for the hell of it?

Arkantos · Oct 25, 2009, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Honestly, what's happened to the community? Is everyone so obsessed with titles that they only want to play a format for the title, and if that title takes time to get (God forbid), they just say screw it?

No, the title does not need to be changed so PvE players can farm the title. If you don't want to achieve it, then go farm another title, and leave CA for people who actually want to play it.

shoyon456 · Oct 25, 2009, 03:54 PM // 15:54

This is why I don't PvP.

ImDReaperslash · Oct 25, 2009, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Honestly, what's happened to the community? Is everyone so obsessed with titles that they only want to play a format for the title, and if that title takes time to get (God forbid), they just say screw it?

No, the title does not need to be changed so PvE players can farm the title. If you don't want to achieve it, then go farm another title, and leave CA for people who actually want to play it.

The hero battles format was active for almost 3 years and no one managed to get r12 of it.
RA format was active for 4 - 4.5 years and I don't know of one who managed to get r12 of it, and even if someone did, he's just one person.
Do you suggest we wait 3 - 4 more years and wait for people to try to get to r12?

Something is broken and obviously needs a change.

Revelations · Oct 25, 2009, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Don't get me wrong, I don't play for the title, it's just a nice aside. I'd just prefer if it didn't die after a month or two.

I don't think people are quite getting the point in this. Look at the Hero track for example, and compare getting even rank 4 via both UW farming, and >100 fame runs. Getting your rank 4 without progressing past anything beyond UW is going to take in excess of 700 matches, and that's not counting UW failures. Compared with the 40 or so it takes on streaks of 10, there is really no contest. If you're bad, sure you'll get a couple of low ranks, but it's going to take you a long time to do it.

So yes, the point in this is to make it obtainable for baddies over a long period of time. And said baddies are often PvErs who are in it to show off various titles, and will even go to the extent of playing a format they don't enjoy to obtain said titles. Obviously if the arena loses everything but it's high end player base, as I forsee happening with the current system, then said PvErs are going to find it exceedingly difficult to gain title points, and not bother with the arena. Obviously it is important for the arena to retain as large a player base as possible, especially as Anet has stated that the arena will be more supported based on it's popularity. (Ladder/AT's etc.)

I enjoy playing CA, I really do. I simply suggest this because I saw exactly how TA died out, and it wasn't entirely due to the shitty meta. I don't want Codex to turn into the same desert as it's predecessor did.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Honestly, what's happened to the community? Is everyone so obsessed with titles that they only want to play a format for the title, and if that title takes time to get (God forbid), they just say screw it?

For myself, no. For the community at large, yes. Sad but true.

Arkantos · Oct 25, 2009, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImDReaperslash

The hero battles format was active for almost 3 years and no one managed to get r12 of it.
RA format was active for 4 - 4.5 years and I don't know of one who managed to get r12 of it, and even if someone did, he's just one person.
Do you suggest we wait 3 - 4 more years and wait for people to try to get to r12?

Something is broken and obviously needs a change.

So because no one has reached the max rank for PvP titles, somethings broken?

Guess what? PvP isn't about farming titles. You PvP to PvP, the titles are just a bonus. The titles weren't introduced to be maxed, they were introduced as a bonus. If you don't want to play CA because of the title, then by all means, don't.

Quote:

I enjoy playing CA, I really do. I simply suggest this because I saw exactly how TA died out, and it wasn't entirely due to the shitty meta. I don't want Codex to turn into the same desert as it's predecessor did.

TA died because the game wasn't balanced around 4v4, and it was stuck in the same shitty meta forever. It didn't die because the title took forever to max.

Revelations · Oct 25, 2009, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

TA died because the game wasn't balanced around 4v4, and it was stuck in the same shitty meta forever. It didn't die because the title took forever to max.

It died for two reasons. The first being a shitty meta.

The second was the fact it had no player influx. This was obviously partly due to #1, but it was also very much due to the fact that no one wanted to be consistently farmed by a bunch of G8's and 9's all day with nothing to show for it.

Edit: Also, I think you're confusing my post with another, because I mentioned nothing about maxing the title. All I'm saying here is that the lower end portion of the player base is more likely to continue playing if they feel they're achieving something from it long term. Perhaps I've worded it badly, but I don't really see why this point isn't getting across.

Arkantos · Oct 25, 2009, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelations

It died for two reasons. The first being a shitty meta.

The second was the fact that it was dead. This was obviously partly due to #1, but it was also very much due to the fact that no one wanted to be consistently farmed by a bunch of G8's and 9's all day with nothing to show for it.

So it had nothing to do with the gladiator title track, ok.

Revelations · Oct 25, 2009, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

So it had nothing to do with the gladiator title track, ok.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me

no one wanted to be consistently farmed by a bunch of G8's and 9's all day with nothing to show for it.

Pretty sure that has everything to do with the fact that Glad only rewarded points after you hadn't encountered said G8's for five matches in a row.

Arkantos · Oct 25, 2009, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelations

Pretty sure that has everything to do with the fact that Glad only rewarded points after you hadn't encountered said G8's for five matches in a row.

No, that means people got tired of getting rolled by good players. Then being g8/9 has nothing to do with anything, it just means that they have experience.

ImDReaperslash · Oct 25, 2009, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

So because no one has reached the max rank for PvP titles, somethings broken?

Guess what? PvP isn't about farming titles. You PvP to PvP, the titles are just a bonus. The titles weren't introduced to be maxed, they were introduced as a bonus. If you don't want to play CA because of the title, then by all means, don't.

TA died because the game wasn't balanced around 4v4, and it was stuck in the same shitty meta forever. It didn't die because the title took forever to max.

I personally don't pvp, but I'm pretty damn sure today's most high end player wouldn't PvP if it wasn't for the rank showoff.
It's nice to play a couple of days\weeks, even months for fun, but when it's getting to YEARS - you know it's about the titles.
Titles aren't a bonus, titles are there so people will have something to play for in PvP.

Arkantos · Oct 25, 2009, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImDReaperslash

I personally don't pvp, but I'm pretty damn sure today's most high end player wouldn't PvP if it wasn't for the rank showoff.
It's nice to play a couple of days\weeks, even months for fun, but when it's getting to YEARS - you know it's about the titles.
Titles aren't a bonus, titles are there so people will have something to play for in PvP.

High-end PvPers play GvG/HA. GvG has the ladder/cape trims, HA has rank (which was around before titles). So yes, I'm pretty damn sure todays high end PvP players would be playing if there were no titles. Titles are bonuses, and most people serious about PvP don't care about them. It doesn't show skill, it shows how long they've played the format.

Revelations · Oct 25, 2009, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

No, that means people got tired of getting rolled by good players. Then being g8/9 has nothing to do with anything, it just means that they have experience.

Argue semantics all you like. Just read: experienced players if g8/9 is such an issue. The reason TA did not have a mid or low level player base during it's final year was the fact that if such teams tried to achieve anything in that arena they would be farmed. For your average Joe Casual PvP, or PvE, this is a serious turnoff, because said farming would likely have also prevented them from getting Glad points. Said farming is a lot more tolerable for average Joe Casual if he gains something out of it, like (even minimal) points toward a title track.

This issue does not particularly concern me, as I am happy playing the format for the experience, and because I am capable of holding my own in a mid-high range environment. But I can tell you right now, a great big chunk of your GW population does not share the same viewpoint, and I would like to keep as many people playing the format as possible so that we continue to see varied teams, and developer support. Giving players some sort of long term achievable goal IS going to make some people stay on who otherwise would not. That's all I'm trying to say here.

BlackSephir · Oct 25, 2009, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Oh, look, a thread about *titles*.
The only good title threads are the ones that suggest removing titles.